keeping a watchful eye on the wolves

Is Todd Bentley walking in the footsteps of mystics and seers?

Is Todd Bentley actually receiving revelations from God, or is there something more to his visions of angels and messages from heaven? For example, what about his vision of Sadhu Sundar Singh? Read the following and decide if these things are biblical.

To begin with, does this vision line up with what the Bible teaches?

DEATH OF A PHILOSOPHER
The soul of a German philosopher entered into the world of spirits and saw from afar the incomparable glory of the spiritual world, and the boundless happiness of its people. He was delighted with what he saw, but his stubborn intellectualism stood in the way of his entering into it, and enjoying its happiness. Instead of admitting that it was real, he argued thus with himself, “There is no doubt at all that I see all this, but what proof is there that it has objective existence, and is not some illusion conjured up by my mind? From end to end of all this scene I will apply the tests of logic, philosophy and science, and then only will I be convinced that it has a reality of its own, and is no illusion.” Then the angels answered him, “It is evident from your speech that your intellectualism has warped your whole nature, for as spiritual, and not bodily, eyes are needed to see the spiritual world, so spiritual understanding is necessary to comprehend its reality, and not mental exercises in the fundamentals of logic and philosophy. Your science that deals with material facts has been left behind with your physical skull and brain in the World. Here, only that spiritual wisdom is of use which arises out of the fear and love of God.” Then said one of the angels to another, “What a pity it is that people forget that precious word of our Lord, ‘Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven’ (Matt. 18:3). I asked one of the angels what the end of this man would be, and he replied “If this man’s life had been altogether bad, then he would at once have joined the spirits of darkness, but he is not without a moral sense, so for a very long time he will wander blindly round in the dim light of the lower parts of the intermediate state, and keep on bumping his philosophical head, until tired of his foolishness, he repents. Then he will be ready to receive the necessary instruction from the angels appointed for that purpose, and, when instructed, will he be fit to enter into the fuller light of God in the higher sphere.”
-The Visions of Sadhu Sundar Singh of India

http://reluctant-messenger.com/sadhu-sundar-singh.htm

This is what the Bible says about second chances for salvation after death:

“And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment” Hebrews 9:27

Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

Obviously, the above account does not line up with the Bible, therefore, it would be classified as a false teaching from lying spirits. This vision was one of many experienced by Sadhu Sundar Singh (1889-1929). Many people today say that he was a fine Christian, and take great offense that anyone should criticize Todd Bentley’s vision of Sadhu Sundar Singh, whose contemplative steps of prayer he practices.

Strangely enough, Sundar Singh’s visions of wandering souls in the spirit world and heavenly spheres also included contact with a dead mystic and seer named Emanuel Swedenborg:

“I saw him several times some years ago, but I did not know his earthly name. His name in the spiritual world is quite different just according to his high position or office and most beautiful character.”[7]

Sharpe also refers back to Singh’s endorsement of Swedenborg as recorded by Appasamy:

“Swedenborg was a great man, philosopher, scientist and, above all seer of clear visions. I often speak with him in my visions. He occupies a high place in the spiritual world … Having read his books and having come into contact with him in the spiritual world, I can thoroughly recommend him as a great seer.”[8]

Sundar Singh’s correspondence with the Swedish Lutheran bishop Nathan Soderblom in November 1928 further confirms that he claimed visionary contact with Swedenborg.

For western evangelical Christians, Swedenborg has long been regarded as an unorthodox teacher. Some, such as the Christian apologist Walter Martin, have classified Swedenborg and his followers among the cults.[9] In light of the evangelical rejection of Swedenborg’s theology, the omission of Sundar Singh’s endorsement of Swedenborg’s teachings from evangelical biographies is very significant. The difficulty for evangelicals is compounded by Singh’s confirmation of contact with Swedenborg in the spirit world. This visionary form of contact with an unorthodox deceased teacher clashes with the portraits of piety drawn by later evangelical biographers such as Cyril Davey and Phyllis Thompson.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadhu_Sundar_Singh

Who exactly was this man who Sundar Singh contacted in the spirit world?

Emanuel Swedenborg (1688–1772) was a Swedish scientist, philosopher, Christian mystic, and theologian. Swedenborg had a prolific career as an inventor and scientist. At the age of fifty-six he entered into a spiritual phase, in which he experienced dreams and visions. This culminated in a spiritual awakening, where he claimed he was appointed by the Lord to write a heavenly doctrine to reform Christianity. He claimed that the Lord had opened his eyes, so that from then on he could freely visit heaven and hell, and talk with angels, demons, and other spirits. For the remaining 28 years of his life, he wrote and published 18 theological works, of which the best known was Heaven and Hell (1758),[4] and several unpublished theological works. –wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg

Not only was Swedenborg a seer and a medium, he was also one of the forerunners to modern spiritualism. Swedenborg believed that he was the only one able to shed light on the true meaning of the Bible, with the help of Angels. This is who Sundar Singh had contact with in the spirit world. Remember this as you read the following…

Let us now get on the fast forward track to June 19, 2006, where Todd Bentley wrote the following…

THE GLORY CLOUD OF REVELATION & PROPHETIC MANTLES ~ PART TWO: CONCLUSION
BY TODD BENTLEY, FRESH FIRE MINISTRIES
http://www.freshfire.ca

…I saw in a vision, the Glory Cloud of Revelation descending upon the church. It was also during this time of prayer that God took me in a vision to what I believed to be the Himalayan Mountains. I saw an Indian man with a turban on his head and heard the whisper of the Spirit say, “This is Sundar Singh. I am releasing anointing of revelation like this.” I had no communication with this old saint, nor did he say anything to me. The experience lasted only a moment…

[…]

Sundar Singh spent at least two hours daily in reading the Scriptures, meditation and prayer. He would arise at 5:00 am and finish by 7:00 or 8:00 depending on what his schedule was for the day. He often spent the whole day or night in prayer. His discipline was to read one chapter of the Bible, rapidly at first reading, then to return to reread passages or verses that were more suggestive to him. These he would linger with and meditate on for as long as it was fruitful for him to do so. Next, he would enter into a period of “recollection” for twenty minutes or so. This was a time of silence, in which he would allow the Lord to speak to him in some way. With his own mind and heart quieted, he opened his mind and his heart to hear what the Lord would have to say to him or just simply enjoy companionship with his Lord. Often this period of silence would extend into a deeper state called “contemplation” in which he enjoyed complete rest and refreshment in the love of God.

Often during times of contemplation, he entered into experiences of ecstasy. He regarded these experiences as the same as St. Paul’s entrance into the “third heaven”. During his latter years, they occurred frequently, as often as ten times a month. About these experiences he said, “I never try to go into ecstasy; nor do I advise others to try. It is a gift to be accepted, but it should not be sought; if given, it is a pearl of great price.”

Anyone who contemplates the heavenly calling of the apostle Paul and his being caught up into the third heaven, and again into Paradise, will lift up his voice to God and say: Glory to God who surely gives great gifts to men!

THE FOUR R’s OF THE CHRISTIAN DEVOTIONAL LIFE

This key is one of the most important tools if we are to see an increase of wisdom and revelation in our lives. In the western Christian tradition, meditation refers to thinking about or the use of the imagination around a passage of scripture, whereas, in India, traditional meditation refers to silencing one’s thoughts. The Christian tradition practices the silencing of thoughts and emotions, but it is called “contemplation” rather than “meditation”. This is one of those unfortunate twists of semantics, which has caused confusion when discussing the spirituality of East and West.

Sundar Singh practiced a sequence of prayer discipline that is identical to ancient Christian monastic disciplines: reading the scriptures, meditation on a passage of the reading (also called response of the mind and heart), recollection, and rest. This sequence is also called lectio divina in Latin. It means divine reading, or more precisely, divine listening, since few people in that day could actually read. When ordinary Christians attended church to hear the Scriptures read aloud, they’d memorize a passage or a verse, and ponder it for a week.

These are the four R’s of lectio divina or Christian devotional life:

1.Reading (hearing) the Word.
2.Responding to the Word with mind and heart.
3.Recollecting oneself with an open mind and open heart to God’s will, and
4.Resting in His Presence.

Christianity is a way of life, not a hobby, or a pastime. As such, we must treat it as serious business. Reflecting on God and His way should not be taken lightly. We must modify our schedules and make the time to meditate, contemplate, and reflect on His word.

Find a quiet place, away from noise or distractions. Isaac went out to meditate in the field in the evening (Genesis 24:63). King David lay on his bed to meditate: “When I remember You upon my bed, and meditate on You in the night watches (Ps. 63:6).
[…]

The entire article by Todd Bentley can be read here:

http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=143&pid=954

*Note: If the Freshfire link becomes no longer available there is something similar here:

http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word_pf.html?ID=1400

After seeing this vision of Sundar Singh, Todd Bentley borrowed his practices of meditation, contemplation, and being still, as revealed in his teaching on Soaking:

“I learned from the lives of Brother Lawrence and Sundar Sing (the famous Hindu mystic who radically converted to Christianity a hundred years ago), as God began to birth my ministry into power. At the end of three months of waiting, basking, bathing, marinating, just beeeeeeeing in His presence I had a visitation of the Lord Himself. He stood behind me and every time I turned around to look at Him He would be behind me. I heard the Lord speak to me in an audible voice as a man speaks to a man.”
http://freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=119&pid=954&bid=955
SOAKING PART 1
BY REVIVALIST TODD BENTLEY

Not only has Todd Bentley been meditating, soaking and having visions and contact with angels and the spirit world (as Singh and Swedenborg did), he has also been teaching these methods to others, as recently as this past January 14th – 17th at Freshfire’s Secret Place Conference in his home town of Abbotsford, B.C., Canada, where he shared teaching time with Heidi Baker, Rodney Howard-Browne:

Wednesday night: Todd Bentley taught on contemplative prayer and learning to silence your thoughts. He outlined the four prayer steps practiced by Sundar Singh, an Indian prophet who had a visitation from Jesus. The steps include: 1. Read a whole chapter, 2. Meditate on the passage that most spoke to you, 3. Recollect with an open mind and heart as the Holy Spirit reveals the scripture to you, then 4. Rest and restoration in His presence while the Spirit imparts revelation or takes you into the heavens. As we make ourselves available to the Lord, said Todd, it is amazing where we will go with Him.
- The Secret Place 2 Conference

http://www.sfwm.org/newhome/showminrpt.cfm?id=36

SECRET PLACE II – CONFERENCE REPORT

Isn’t it becoming quite obvious by now that Todd Bentley walks in the footsteps of mystics and seers who had contact with the spirit world? Is it any wonder he has similar supernatural experiences and angelic encounters? This is extremely important to understand. If you are a sheep who is following Todd Bentley and seeking after the supernatural realm, please take heed. This in NOT the path that the Good Shepherd leads His sheep on. Run to Him while there is still time!

5 Thus says the LORD concerning the prophets
Who make my people stray;
Who chant “Peace”
While they chew with their teeth,
But who prepare war against him
Who puts nothing into their mouths:
6 “ Therefore you shall have night without vision,
And you shall have darkness without divination;
The sun shall go down on the prophets,
And the day shall be dark for them.
7 So the seers shall be ashamed,
And the diviners abashed;
Indeed they shall all cover their lips;
For there is no answer from God.”

Micah 3:5-7

Essential reading:

Tarot, Carl Jung, Swedenborg, Blake & Freemasons
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/occult/theosophy-swedenborg-blake.htm

Sadhu Sundar Singh – Hindu Mystic in Sheeps Clothing
http://discerningtheworld.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/sadhu-sundar-singh-hindu-mystic-in-sheeps-clothing/

25 responses

  1. caron123

    YES! He is! Its interesting how “contemplative prayer,” “emergent” practices, “desert fathers,” “super apostles,” false “prophets,” and “word of faith” all meshes together… For more on this, check out Lighthouse Research Trails blog… Its an enormous amount of information on this and a great site!

    June 13, 2008 at 9:50 am

  2. Duane

    If the mystics and seers from the Bible were alive today I’d be reading similar warnings about them. There is John,the crazy man on the Isle of Patmos, boiled in oil, claiming he went to heaven. Peter seeing visions and claims that God told Him to break the law of Moses. Paul claiming he might of had an out of body experience, being caught up into the third heaven. Everyone know the Bible says there is only on heaven, right?

    Repent of not even praying for the sick, repent for your unbelief that the dead are raised, repent of being afraid of diseases let alone clensing leapers, repent of reducing the gospel to words of human wisdom with no power. Does your gospel have power to transform lives, deliver from demonic oppression, set people free from drug additions. It’s easy to be critical, it’s another thing to love unconditionally those you don’t have a grid for.

    June 14, 2008 at 3:50 am

  3. I’ve been looking into Sadhu Sundar Singh and discovered your information on Bentley. Pretty disturbing. I’m preparing for a seminary class I’m teaching this fall on Contemporary Occultism at Southern Evangelical Seminary. Thanks for the information and the links. I look forward to seeing some of your other postings.

    June 14, 2008 at 5:00 am

  4. sheepyweepy

    Duane,

    Any new personal revelation must line up with what God has already revealed to us in His written inspired Word. If it does not, it is not of God, as He is unchanging. Check out what Bentley, Jones and King see in their visions. Check out the manifestations you see at Lakeland. Do they line up with God’s Word? Where is the documentation and evidence for these miracles? Are they being followed up? Are they lasting?

    We cannot base our beliefs on what our eyes tell us, or on what our feelings tell us, but on what the Word of God tells us.

    Richard,

    God bless you as you study and warn others of these dangers. These are perilous times we live in when wolves walk among the sheep, unrecognized.

    June 14, 2008 at 5:08 am

  5. Andre

    Dear sheepyweepy
    Could you please explain to me the meaning of 1 Peter 4:6 and also the practice of delivering someone to Satan for destruction of flesh (how does this happen and where does this person ends up (in heaven or hell and how does this happen?). Thank you.

    June 14, 2008 at 12:36 pm

  6. sheepyweepy

    Andre,

    What a very good question. I will try to answer that, but I am not a Bible scholar. Some say that 1 Peter 4:6 is the most difficult passage in the Bible to understand. The context of 1 Peter is about persecution and suffering for righteousness sake. It is written to those who are in the midst of trials. In this context, most Bible scholars say this passage refers to those heard the gospel when they were still alive and who have been martyred for their faith. (Those who are now dead had heard the gospel and accepted it when they were alive but have now been judged in the flesh by men and martyred). As Peter writes this letter he is thinking of the people there who have heard the gospel but have since died. Some have misinterpreted this passage to mean that there is a second chance after death, but the Bible does not support this anywhere else. (Hebrews 9:27) The whole idea of 1 Peter 4:6 is that your body may be killed, but your spirit will live and you have the promise of eternal life if you are already in Christ.

    About delivering someone over to Satan:

    1 Cor. 5:3-5

    3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
    4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Do you know some people use this passage to support astral travel? This passage means, first of all, that Paul didn’t need to be among them physically to exercise authority from a distance. His letter was a good enough representation of his authority in those times. About the rest of this verse, Paul is judging in a way that is not hypocritical (judging conduct, not motives).

    About verse 5, delivering someone over to Satan:

    David Guzik’s commentary notes say this:

    c.How could they deliver such a one to Satan? By putting him outside the church, into the world, which is the devil’s “domain.” The punishment is a removal of spiritual protection and social comfort, not an infliction of evil….
    …Paul’s command would also serve the important purpose of remove any false feeling of security the sinning man might have among the fellowship of Christians. They couldn’t just ignore his sin, and let him ignore it, pretending it wasn’t there. If the man refused to face his sin, the church must face it for him, for his sake and for their sake.
    d.The purpose of putting this man outside the spiritual protection and social comfort of the church was the destruction of the flesh, not the body, but his rebellious flesh.
    This man, though a Christian, was at this time given over to the sins of the flesh. Paul is saying that through their taking him away, the man will be given over to the sinful consequences of his flesh, and the hope is that by wallowing in the results of his sin, the sinful impulse of the flesh in this particular area will be “destroyed.”
    As Christians, we do continual battle with the flesh, because though the old man is dead, having been crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6), the flesh lives on, having been “educated” in sin by the old man, the devil, and the worldly culture around us. God now calls us, in partnership with Him, to do to the flesh what He did by Himself to the old man: crucify it (Galatians 5:24). Paul hopes that putting this man out of the fellowship of the Corinthian Christians will lead him to crucify the flesh with its passions and desires.
    The words deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh were used to justify terrible torture during the Inquisition, but this isn’t what Paul is talking about at all. Paul isn’t talking about destroying the man’s physical body, but addressing the spiritual power of his sinful flesh.
    e. That his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus: The goal of the discipline is clear: the salvation, not the destruction, of hi spirit. Though this man’s conduct was clearly sinful, and needed severe correction, Paul does not write him off as forever lost. The effective use of church discipline may yet see him to salvation….
    f. Paul does not say the church should take away the sinning man’s salvation. The church does not grant salvation; it certainly cannot take it away. But there are cases, for the good of the sinner, and for the good of the church, when someone should be put out of the congregation.
    Some call this “excommunication” or “disfellowshipping” a person. They are to be put outside the congregation until they repent. In today’s church culture, this rarely brings a sinner to repentance, because they can so easily just go to another church and pretend that nothing happened at their old church. Or, it is easy for them to play the victim, and act as if their former church was cruel towards them. While it is true that some churches have been cruel towards their members, and unjustly kicked some out of the congregation, it does not mean the church should never practice the Biblical principles Paul teaches here. It is to be done, for both the good of the church, and the good of the sinner.
    g. So, “There was to be a meeting of the church, where Paul, spiritually present, would, in the name of Christ, and in the exercise of the miraculous power with which he was invested, deliver the offender to the power of Satan.” (Hodge)

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Where someone ends up after this process is up to the Lord. If the person is truly saved, he will enter into eternity with the Lord. Only the Lord knows. We DO know that Jesus said (in Matthew 7):

    21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Look at those amazing things they were doing…in HIS NAME! And Jesus will say He does not know them, or that He NEVER knew them! This means they were NOT saved. They were acting.

    A sobering thought.

    As for the last part of your question – where ANYONE spends eternity, be it heaven or hell, depends on what they have chosen to believe in this life, like the jailer, in Acts 16, who said to Paul and Silas,

    “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved”

    That means making Him the Lord of your life. (Even the demons believe and tremble, but Jesus is not their Lord and Master).

    June 14, 2008 at 4:00 pm

  7. Duane

    Sheepyweepy wrote,

    “Any new personal revelation must line up with what God has already revealed to us in His written inspired Word. If it does not, it is not of God, as He is unchanging.”

    1 Cor 14:6,24-26 is a passage where Paul encourages revelation. He frequently encourages each, all, and everyone to desire earnestly the prophetic gifts. I almost agree with your above statement but would say revelation must not contradict doctrine. Yes, Todd is walking in the footsteps of the mystics and seers. He is practicing Biblical Christianity, the Bible has many examples of mystics and seers.

    “Check out what Bentley, Jones and King see in their visions. Check out the manifestations you see at Lakeland. Do they line up with God’s Word?”

    Yes! The blind see, the lame walk, the deaf hear, the dead are raised! Does the Bible have the word – Bam! No but it doesn’t contradict. Where in the Bible does it say “Thou shall not manifest”

    “Where is the documentation and evidence for these miracles? Are they being followed up? Are they lasting?”

    There is nightly video evidence of simple people, little children and the elderly, people taking out their hearing aids, people leaving their walkers, and telling their story. Todd went on Fox News tonight with documentation he is turning over to a Heraldo’s investigators. There is a mountain of evidence. Are you aligning yourselves with unbelievers? Do you have eyes to see, but you refuse to see? Is Todd Bentley outside your box? Obviouslly, the question is – Is your box too small and narrow? You should be rejoicing that the gospel is being proclaimed and demonstrated. Todd was a drug addict, an abused child and at a young age abused others. But God turned his life around radically.

    It was the religious community that crucified Jesus? It is now the religious community that is attacking Todd. Maybe you should take Gamaliel’s advice in Acts 6:38Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

    “We cannot base our beliefs on what our eyes tell us, or on what our feelings tell us, but on what the Word of God tells us.”

    Then stop basing your judgments of Todd based on his manifestations and how you feel about him.

    Does Todd deny Jesus is the Christ? No.
    Does Todd preach the gospel? Yes
    You disagree with Todd because he is a mystic and a seer? So.

    We have doctrinal differences between groups. Are you saying all of us Bible believing Christians who also have experiences that are mystical and revelatory are heretics?

    June 15, 2008 at 5:13 am

  8. sheepyweepy

    Duane,

    Your questions will be answered…but probably not until Monday.

    June 15, 2008 at 5:25 am

  9. It was the religious community that crucified Jesus? It is now the religious community that is attacking Todd.

    Um… I thought TOdd was one of the religious leaders? There are plenty of religious leaders endorsing Todd.

    Maybe you should take Gamaliel’s advice in Acts 6:38

    Maybe if Gamaliel was a Christian… isn’t he one of the ones who trained Paul to go out and kill Christians before he was converted?

    Maybe you should take the advice of the Bible and expose False teachers.

    June 16, 2008 at 1:20 pm

  10. sheepyweepy

    Paula,

    Good comment, thank you.

    DUANE,

    I’ve watched the staged miracles. All I am saying is be careful, things are not always what they appear to be.

    About manifesting…if you read up about what the Bible says about the fruits of the Spirit, you will realize that the manifestations of the Florida outpouring are not anything like the ones in the Bible. But the identical manifestations are found in the awakening of kundalini serpent power. When you do see people thrashing on the ground in the Bible it is due to demon possession. When you see people going after the power of the Holy Spirit and money in the Bible, it is people like Simon the sorcerer, and those who lied to the Holy Spirit. The people who fell backwards in the Bible were the ones who came to arrest Jesus.

    Regarding video evidence of the miracles. Do you mean video evidence like the man whose legs stumps grew an inch and he could see from his glass eyeball? Is this a miracle?

    Can’t God do better than this?

    You said: “stop basing your judgments of Todd based on his manifestations and how you feel about him.”

    Todd is judged by the Word of God, not by anyone’s “feelings”.

    Re: mystics, seers, revelations

    God still speaks to us today, but what He says always lines up with what has already been written.

    The men of God in the Bible were not mystics and seers in the same way that we think of mystics and seers today. They were prophets of God who did not receive the same kind of “glory” messages that Todd “gets”. We cannot compare the prophets in the Bible to mystics and seers in today’s spirituality, much of which is a combination of Eastern and occultic methods.

    June 16, 2008 at 6:47 pm

  11. Duane

    I’m going to finish responding with a testimony. I grew up in a Bible Chapel that taught the gifts were not for today. While attending an Evangelical Christian College, Le Tourneau College in the early 1980′s, I became involve in the Charismatic movement. I had many mental difficulties due to my upbringing, but after careful study and prayer began to see gifts of the holy spirit given to me. It was only after the mental blocks were cleared away that I could believe and receive.

    Jumping to the late 1990′s and the Toronto and Brownsville revivals. I attended a meeting or two in 1995 where laughter broke out but instead of receiving it, I rejected it because it wasn’t the kind of revival I was expecting and my initial response was “this is too weird for me”.

    A few years later I became the prayer leader in my local church, my weekly meetings were poorly attended and weak. After five months of this I was greatly discouraged and about ready to give up and shut the meeting down. A group from Smithton, Missouri came to El Cajon, California and in my desperation I was one of the first to go forward to receive impartation, despite the fact the minister and his wife were offensive in several ways. I had never manifested and really had no desire to. A young man prayed for me, and I began to shake. It was rather embarrassing, because my arms were flailing around rather wildly. I didn’t understand it, my mind was asking, “why am I shaking”, my emotions weren’t excited, embarrassment was the strongest emotion. My hunger was stronger then my embarrassment so I kept coming back.

    That next Thursday I led my weekly prayer meeting and soon after it started I began shaking again. The prayer meeting went powerfully and that Sunday morning the things we prayer for happened. Ten years later I am still leading prayer meetings and God is still answering. There have truly been many amazing answers to prayer. The fruit has been very good, I was empowered for ministry.

    Why did I manifest? When the wind blows a leaf or blade of grass manifests. When the wind of the Holy Spirit blows sometimes a human body manifests. If a demonic spirit is powerful enough to make a human body manifest, even more the presence of God’s Spirit is much more powerful.

    I’ve been in the deliverance tent for 10 straight nights when Carlos Anacondia came to San Diego and seen many demonic manifestations. Sometimes it is difficult to judge whether a person is manifesting because they want to draw attention to themselves, because a demonic power is involved or because the Holy Spirit is truly moving powerfully. Discernment is very important.

    I’ve seen Todd Bentley a few years ago and although young and brash. I found nothing demonic about his ministry. Several time in watching the Lakeland meetings I’ve wept as I listened to the testimonies of sick people suddenly made well.

    After reading your post, I’ve decide to take you up as a prayer project. My prayer is that you would hunger and thirst for the living God. I also pray the true and living God would come upon you so powerfully that you cannot help but manifest (just to embarrass your religiousness :-) I really ask for his power so that his kingdom will be greatly expanded by your ministry. I also pray that you would not worship the Bible, but the God of the Bible and come to the realization that God says and does things not specifically written, but that doesn’t go against His unchanging word or character.

    May you be so filled with joy, (one of the fruits of the spirit) that you have frequent times of holy laughter.

    June 17, 2008 at 7:18 am

  12. Francis

    I have been reading this blog with interest and wanted to add this. Many people want to know about God by studying/going to church/doing activities etc but the Bible says we are to know God not know about Him. Paul mentions that as Christians our bodies are temples of God and the Holy Spirit dwells in us. He also says this is the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead that dwells in us. To me Christ as the head in my life and my family and every area is primary priority. It is so easy to analyze someone but the best person I can analyze is myself. I do this everyday to “test myself to see if I am in the faith” and to detest the old man and crucify it at the Cross of Calvary.
    I have my reservations on “sensationalism” so called “manifestations” but at the same time if God is the author of a revival and if the broken and hurting are radically turning to Christ we ought to weeping with joy.
    As someone said “For the supremacy of Christ in all things”

    June 18, 2008 at 1:27 am

  13. sheepyweepy

    Francis, right on!

    Duane, regarding not worshipping the Bible – Jesus Christ IS the WORD (LOGOS). Learn of Him, forget about manifesations and impartations, and worship Him alone.

    June 18, 2008 at 10:14 pm

  14. Duane

    Hey Sheepyweepy,

    Have you ever read Andrew Murray? Is he a Christian author you respect? I hope so, he was well respected in the Bible Chapel I grew up in and is considered one of the top few authors on prayer in church history. The rest of this post, a long one is from him, and not the easiest of reads.

    Pressing on,

    Duane

    Andrew Murray
    On Christian Mysticism

    God is all; God must have all; God alone must work all
    Taken completely from the introduction of Wholly For God by Andrew Murray p. xii – xxxii

    The root of and source of all this evil in the unconquerable power of self. Nothing but the mighty, immediate and perpetual operation of God on the soul can give deliverance. Nothing but the having the very spirit and humility, and love of the Lamb of God within can ever satisfy either God or our own heart.

    Devotion is neither private nor public prayer; but prayers, whither private or public, are Particular parts of devotion. Devotion signifies a life given, or devoted, to God.

    One of the chief marks of the mystic is that he seeks to pierce through all the appearances of nature to the Great Being who lives and moves in it all.

    That we be not, on the one hand, led unaware into error, nor, on the other, be prejudiced against truth by undue apprehension, it may be well for us to consider what this work “mystic ” means. In mysticism, as in everything human, there is an admixture of good and evil. Mysticism, because it is at root a truth, its good has, notwithstanding a considerable amount of error, greatly outweighed its evil.

    Mysticism has been defined as a belief in an immediate and continuous communication between God and the soul, which may be established by means of certain peculiar religious exercises; as belief in an inner light which may almost dispense with the written revelation. This definition identifies mysticism too closely with it extravagances, its more or less unsound developments, and overlooks that there is a mystical element in all-true religion.

    The close connection between the words mystic and mystery will help us to understand what it means. In all religion, in all existence, there are hidden mysteries: for these the mystic has a natural affinity. In all the mysteries off revelation there is a human side, which the mind of man can master and reduce to a system. There is another, the Divine side, which human reason cannot grasp or express, but which opens itself to the faith that, in contemplation and worship, lives in the Invisible. The mystic believes in a Divine light and power that comes on the soul that makes these its special object.

    What we have said is enough to indicate very generally what distinguishes the mystic from the ordinary Christian. Mystics have a special gift and calling in the body of Christ, that like all specialists, there value consists in their devoting themselves to one side or sphere of the Divine life, thereby to benefit those who have not the same gift or calling. The result of what they attain must become the common property of those members of Christ’s body whose talents point them to other parts of the great field of Christian life and duty. Prejudice will be lessened, and the immense benefit acknowledged which the Church has from the presence and life of those who so intensely witness for the Unseen and Incomprehensible.

    Mystic Principles

    1. The great mystery of the universe is God. The mystic seeks for God. To know God, to realize God, to live here on earth in conscious fellowship with Him, to love God, is his highest aim. “That God may be all” (1Cor 15:28) is the truth to which all others are subordinate. The words of Scripture, “For whom are all things, and through whom are all things,” stands in the very forefront of its theology. Romans 11:36; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Hebrews. 2:10

    Man can live ALL FOR GOD as by faith he yields himself to expect ALL THROUGH GOD. To know and enjoy and honor God thus must be the one object of existence; to aim at it and increasingly to attain to it, is true religion and true happiness.

    2. The mystic insists especially on the truth that the organ, by which God is to be known, is not the understanding but the heart; that only love can know God in truth. Man was made in the image of God. We know God first in His works. From these we rise to His attributes, and form our conceptions of how these constitute the perfection of Him we seek to know. But behind and beyond these attributes there is the Infinite and Incomprehensible Being, who hides Himself in a light that is inaccessible. Even so there is in man, who was made in the image of God, and outer life of thoughts and feelings, of words and actions. From these we go inward to the powers from whence they come–the understanding, the affection, the will. But then behind these, there is the deep center of the soul, what Scripture speaks of as the spirit, and at times as the heart, in which life has its secret roots, where its hidden character is found, and from whence all the issues of life proceed. This is that inner hidden sanctuary of man’s nature which corresponds to the mystery of the Divine Being, whose likeness he bears, and which God created specially for Himself to dwell in. This is that hidden depth which none but He who searches the hearts can fathom or know. This is the seat of that renewing of the Holy Spirit, in which the birth of the Divine life creates a man anew. Reason can form its conceptions, and frame its image of what God must be; but the Hidden, the Incomprehensible One Himself, reason cannot touch. As He is in Himself so His working in man: His dwelling and His dwelling-place in the heart are a mystery too.

    One of the great reasons that our religion is so powerless is that it is too much a thing of reason and sense. We place our dependence on the intellectual apprehensions of truth, and the influence these exert in stirring the feelings, the desires, and the will. But they cannot reach to the life, to the reality of God both because they are in their nature unfitted for receiving God, and are darkened under the power of sin. Mysticism insists upon this –and presses unceasingly the cultivation of the spiritual faculty which retires within itself, and seeks in patient waiting for God by faith to open the deepest recesses of its being to His presence. Man’s intellectual faculties are by the fall in a much worse state than his natural animal appetites, and want a much greater self-denial.

    When the call of God to repentance first rises in thy soul, thou are to be retired, silent, passive and humbly attentive to this new risen Light within thee, by wholly stopping, or disregarding the workings of thy own will, reason, and judgment. It is because all these are false counselors, the sworn servants, and bribed slaves of thy fallen nature. They are all born and bred in the kingdom of self. Therefore if a new kingdom is to be set up in thee, if the operation of God is to have its effect in thee, all these natural powers of self are to be silenced and suppressed, till they have learned obedience and subjection to the Spirit of God.

    We can now understand why such high value is attached to the contemplative life, to stillness of soul, and to the practice of the presence of God. It is as the insufficiency of our own powers of thought is deeply felt, and their activity is restrained, that the deeper the hidden powers of our nature can take their place. Faith can exercise its highest function as a faith of the operation of God, who raised Christ from the dead. The door is opened for God to become our inward life as truly as self has been our very inmost life.

    3. Another point in which the mystic seeks to enter into the hidden mystery of God, is the nature or redemption. There are two views we find in Scripture, each the complement of the other. In the one, the simpler, more outward and objective, Christ as our representative did a certain work for us, which He now in heaven applies, to us. In the other, the knowledge of Him as an outward person and of His outward work is considered as but the means to an end, a preparation leading up to the inward experience to His indwelling in us. “A Christ not in us is the same as a Christ not ours.”

    If we ask what Christ in us means? His (William Law’s) answer is, that that which constituted Him the Christ, made Him acceptable to God, and enabled Him to restore within us the perfection we lost, that that is what He must be in us. What constitutes Him the Lamb of God is His meekness, His humility, His resignation to God’s will. And no faith in an outward Lamb of God, on the cross or on the throne, can possibly save us, except as it restores us to that humility before God, that resignation to His will, which is, whether in heaven or earth, the only possible way of entrance in the God’s presence.

    Our salvation consists wholly in being saved from ourselves, or from that which we are by nature. In the whole nature of things, nothing could be this salvation or Savior to us, but such Humility of God as is beyond all expression. This is the great trial of human life, whether a man will give himself up to the meekness, the patience, the sweetness, the simplicity, and the humility of the Lamb of God. This is the whole of the matter between God and the creature.

    Death to self is a man’s only entrance into the Church of Life, and nothing but God can give death to self. Self is an inward life, and God is an Inward Spirit of Life; therefore, nothing kills that which must be killed in us, or quickens that which must come to life in us, but the inward work of God in the soul, and the inward work of the soul in God. This is that mystic religion, which, though it has nothing in it but that same spirit, that same truth, and the same life, which always was and always must be the religion of all God’s holy angels and saints in heaven, is by the wisdom of this world accounted to be madness.

    It is just this element of mysticism that has formed its great attraction to those who truly thirst for God. Sin would be nothing if it were not sin in us, inspiring and ruling our inmost life. And Christ cannot be a complete Savior until His indwelling and inworking be as real and full as that of sin.

    4. Just one more of the special teachings of mysticism. It is summed up in the expression that we must come away out of the manifold to the simple, out of multiplicity to unity, from the circumference to the center. The thought runs through its whole system, and is the key to the right apprehension of much of its teaching.

    This truth holds in reference to God. Until a soul learns to see how entirely God is the center of all, how God is to be met and found and enjoyed in every thing, so that nothing in heaven or earth can for one moment separate from Him it never can have perfect rest. And rest in God is the first duty and the true bliss of the creature. You have Christians who devote themselves most diligently to the study of God’s word, who are delighted with every new truth they discover, or every new light in which an old truth is set before them, and who yet scarce ever meet the one Divine Word, who speaks in power within them. You have others who are consumed with zeal and labor, and yet know not what it is through all to have their rest in God. We need to be brought from the circumference to the living center. There we shall be rested and refreshed, and endued with the power of a Divine strength to do our work in the power of the eternal world.

    This truth holds in reference to sin. Nothing less than entire conformity to God’s requirement and Christ’s example is held up as our only standard, or hope of being found meet for admission to heaven. But there is nothing like the laying the axe to the root of the tree, the tracking of sin to its one source…there is but one deliverance from sin, and that is the deliverance from self. Law points out how the four elements of self or fallen nature — covetousness, envy, pride and wrath –are tied together in one inseparable band; they mutually generate and are generated by each other. They have but one common life, and must all of them live, or all die together. Self is the whole evil of fallen nature. Self is the root, the tree, and the branches of all the evils of our fallen state. Self is not only the seat and habitation, but the very life of sin. The works of the devil are all wrought in self; it is his peculiar workhouse. Therefore Christ is not come as a Savior from sin, but so far as self is beaten down, and overcome in us.

    It is as the soul in this light is led to turn from the hopeless multiplicity of its sins, by which it has been distracted, to the one source of all, that it will learn how hopeless its efforts are, and see its need of a death to self in the death of Christ as its only hope.

    This truth holds especially also in regard to faith. The reason why you hardly ever attain first-rate virtues, is because you seek them in the way they are not to be found, in a multiplicity of human rules, methods, and contrivances, and not in that simplicity of faith in which those who applied to Christ immediately obtained that which they asked of Him.

    It is as the soul is led to see that in God is the unity and center of the universe and of our life, and thus that sin is nothing but our having turned from this God to self, and that therefore our one need is the deliverance from self, that it will discover in Christ a new meaning, and will understand how in the very nature of things nothing can save us but the simplicity of faith. Christ becomes to us the man who lived the life of God for us in human nature, and who brings salvation from self by Himself being born into us, and giving us a life of God in which self is swallowed up as darkness is swallowed up in light. This life must be received; and to receive it nothing avails but a true desire and a simple faith.

    Now, this way of attaining goodness (by rules and precepts), though thus imperfect, is yet absolutely necessary in the nature of the thing, and must first have its time, work, and place in us. Yet it is only for a time, as the law was a schoolmaster to the gospel. All this effort is only to bring a man to such a total despair of all help, from human means, as to make him turn to God from whom alone life can come. Faith becomes the one thing needful. It is a belief that puts the soul into a right state, and that makes room for the operation of God upon it. Oh, blessed simplicity of the Christian life! May we all learn its blessed secret. Let God be all to us. Let Christ be all, as our way to God, as God working and dwelling in us. Let faith be all to us, the simple and unceasing turning of our souls to Christ Jesus.

    June 19, 2008 at 4:20 am

  15. sheepyweepy

    Duane,

    Yes, the believer’s relationship with God is mystical. The mystery that was hidden but is now revealed is the Church – that we are grafted in to the Promise through the New Covenant. We can never understand how a Holy God would intervene and initiate such a plan while we were yet sinners.

    Regardless of anything you might like to hear about mysticism, the fact remains that there are many MANY troubling problems with Todd Bentley’s teachings. One of these many problems is his connections, name dropping, and following in the footstpes of noted false teachers and false prophets, one of whom is Sadhu Sundar Singh. There are many more.

    June 20, 2008 at 4:04 pm

  16. Steve

    Why must you people kick against the pricks?

    Why must you overcomplicate everything?

    If you go back and read some of your own comments, you will (should) see that you have answered your own questions.

    I have been actively following this Lakeland movement “religiously” for several weeks now, and I have yet to see ANY _valid_ criticism whatsoever.

    Wake up people. Stop hindering (grieving) the Spirit. There is a lot of work to be done in these last days.

    June 23, 2008 at 4:01 pm

  17. Francis

    I wanted to add a comment about Sundar Singh. What would you call someone who is repeatedly persecuted for the sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. What is that Sundar Singh gained for himself when he left everything for the sake of the Gospel. It is important to understand his conversion from a cultural perspective too. A 15 year old boy kicked out by his parents and poisoned by his brothers just for the sake of Jesus Christ. It is possible that Sundar Singh strayed from the Word of God later in his life but on the whole the writings about his life show him as someone who glorified Christ and literally put his life on the line several times for the Gospel sake. I am not sure if someone like that should be called a false prophet.
    Taking selective writings about people and saying things about them is easy but walking the talk is not.

    June 25, 2008 at 9:59 pm

  18. sheepyweepy

    It’s possible he strayed.

    Here is the question:

    When someone writes that they have communicated with dead people in the spirit realm (which God forbids), should we only select the good things they have said and call them a true prophet?

    June 26, 2008 at 5:31 am

  19. Francis

    I want to appreciate you for your candid question. The laws of logic apply to both sides of the argument dont they?
    My response to the original comment was because someone categorically seemed to conclude Sundar Singh was a false prophet, not because someone wrote he was a true and great prophet. Do you see my point.
    My response acknowledged that the writings of Sundar Singh indicate he may have strayed from the Word of God.
    There is no doubt in my mind that the Word of God is the benchmark by which we evaluate one’s actions or words for the Christian life. I am sure to fail in my spiritual life if I act contrary to the Word of God. The only book that Sundar Singh read most of his life was the Word of God – the Bible. As a matter of fact he believed and lived Mark 8:35 “For whoever wants to save his own life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for me and for the Gospel will save it.” He even rebuked a secret club of believers urging them to publicly profess their faith in Jesus Christ. He openly lived his faith being persecuted for the very thing he believed in and was transformed by – the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There are writings about his mystical experiences, it is possible Sundar Singh acted contrary to the Word of God. If he truly did whether he repented we do not know. His life surely does indicate that his life did not revolve around mysticism but rather his conviction to take the Gospel to the remote of the world. In those days there was so much antagonism to the Gospel in Tibet that they would punish people by sewing them to a yak skin and leave in the sun to die when the yak skin shrunk it broke the bones or they put leeches on the body. Sundar Singh was subject to that kind of treatment. What I have read from a lot of literature is that Sundar Singh, at the end of his life(inspite of failing health) wanted to take the Gospel again to Tibetian mountains and went barefoot on his journey and was never seen again. If his experiences were truly of God and from God then Sundar Singh did not seek himself. His life as a whole as we know it was one that glorified Christ. When he was a devout Hindu he truly believed Jesus Christ was dead. When he was seeking the one true God he says in his book it was God who revealed Himself to him. The Western Christian thought life is predominantly a monotheistic thought process and has very little idea about the multi-theistic thought process in the East from a cultural prespective. Can you imagine being brought up in a home where there are literally a million gods to be worshipped and yet you struggle with knowing the real one. India is a place like that. As I mentioned above a young boy shunned from his home is the ultimate humiliation in the Eastern world especially in a country like India. Inspite of that Sundar was fully content he found Christ or rather Christ found him. His father who kicked him out later became a Christian.
    I encourage to read the below link and if you have questions maybe talk to the people in the ministry of the link above or go to http://www.lefi.org. The president of this organization talks about how his dad personally knew Sundar Singh.
    It is very easy explaning things away but when it comes to walking the talk it is entirely a different thing. Sundar Singh seemed to walk the talk. Sure he would come across as a strange man.
    I wonder how far are we willing to go to know if someone really glorifed Christ or not. This question is important because the lives of great people of God are used to be shared as a faithfulness of Christ and for His glory.
    I am not a Bible scholar but 2 Corinthians 12:1-10 talks about the visions of Apostle Paul.
    Blessings.

    June 27, 2008 at 2:19 am

  20. sheepyweepy

    Francis,

    I hear what you are saying, but I think the original post speaks for itself. There is no doubt that Singh communicated with, admired and read the books of Swedenborg, a man who he thought occupied a very high place in the spiritual realm. Swedenborg also claimed, like Bentley, to be able to travel at will to heaven and hell and have conversations with the dead. This is completely unbiblical. Perhaps Singh’s life is very interesting to read about, but if we are to follow, admire, or look to anyone at all, it must be Jesus. So here we have Todd Bentley actually not only have a vision of Singh but then in turn teaching his practices. You may have also seen Todd, Patricia King and Bob Jones talk about how they too, at will, travel to heaven. This is all such bizarre extra-biblical revelation (or story telling) that we have no choice but to put them all in the twilight zone category. These are forbidden occult practices…astral projection, communicating with the dead, etc.

    When someone is a servant of the Lord and in the public eye, there must not be one thing that will be a reason to make someone stumble or be led astray. Can you imagine if a well respected Bible teacher like John MacArthur, for example, would tell us that he regularly goes to heaven, has talked with Paul, who told him who actually wrote the book of Hebrews, and that Paul had gotten fat and bald and lived in a cabin(like Bentley claims)…or that he regularly goes to hell and visits with dead people (like Singhs’ spirit world friend Swedenorg)? No, if JM said that, he would lose his credibility immediatlely.

    But Todd Bentley and friends get away with it.

    The point here is that Todd Bentley is into some strange things and has some extremely unbiblical beliefs. Perhaps we need to spend less time learning from men like Sadhu Sundar Singh and Todd Bentley, and more time studying and knowing God’s Word in order to know Him and to walk in His truth. Everything else is just fables and doctrines of demons.

    Regarding your last point:
    “I wonder how far are we willing to go to know if someone really glorifed Christ or not. This question is important because the lives of great people of God are used to be shared as a faithfulness of Christ and for His glory.”

    We don’t have to go far to know if others are glorifying Christ. We are not called to look to men…WE are to live our own lives to glorify Christ and go as far as He asks US. We are to fix our eyes on Him, not on men. And of course, the Bible has recorded the lives of men and women who God has used, these are all examples for us to learn from…but ultimately their experiences help us to understand the character of God. Of course there are other accounts throughout history that we can be blessed and encouraged by as well (like the martyrs), but ultimately, we need to learn from God’s Word which points us to His Son, Jesus Christ.

    14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

    15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    2 Timothy 3

    June 27, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  21. Francis

    I want to thank you for allowing me to write my comments in your blog. Another similar blog just shut me out on the first post. I agree with you on almost everything you wrote in the last post.
    The lives of the people where God worked in their lives should be only an inspiration but never a pre-occupation.
    Although I am not convinced about the evaluation of Sundar Singh here, I am going to rest my case now.
    I pray that the people who read this blog have discernment not to look to people but to Him.

    June 27, 2008 at 7:03 pm

  22. sheepyweepy

    Thanks Francis. Come back any time. I appreciate your comments.

    I don’t have it all right, but I know that God does, and it is in Him I trust. We are all learning and growing in His grace and mercy.

    June 27, 2008 at 7:17 pm

  23. Padre Planko

    The Bible gives us several tests to see if a spirit that is speaking is of God or the Spirit of antichrist.
    I would invite all of us to look again at the Apostle John’s writing to the children he looked after.
    In John’s second Epistle he gives this test.
    II John 1:7-11
    I John 4:1-8
    There are many other Old Testament passages how to tell a false prophet but these two are the real
    New Testament Litmus tests.
    #1 does the spirit speaking confess Jesus is the Christ and has come in the flesh?
    If so that spirit is from God and we can not call them a false prophet.
    In the Old Testament it was not enough for a prophet’s words to not come to pass the real test was did they the prophet lead God’s people away from His purposes.
    If we look at the Old Testament prophets both Major and Minor we will find as in the case of Ezekiel who by the way Our Lord Jesus identified more with than any other Old Testament prophet, Ezekiel even referred to himself as son of man in a lot of his prophesies.
    You must admit it is very strange the things God told him to do.
    shave off half of his head and also half of his beard at the same time on opposite sides of his face and head.
    how about eat food cooked over a dung fire?
    These are in direct conflict with the Law of Moses.
    But do we dare call Ezekiel a false prophet?
    The people of his time wanted to but God vindicated him.
    Here is my point, prophets Old and New did some pretty weird stuff and God apparently told them to do it.
    What about Isaiah?
    He prophesied that King Hezekiah would die shortly and to get his house in order.Isa 38:1
    Hezekiah prayed and God changed his mind and gave him 15 more years Isa 38:4-8
    Apparently God changed His mind, does that make Isaiah a false prophet?
    That is a prophecy that did not come to pass as it was originally given.
    No my brothers and sisters there are many other tests we must apply before we judge any man or spirit.
    I have seen the terrible devestation caused by those in the Body of Christ who are like the Corinthians they think they are spiritual and have a right to judge spiritual matters but they are really filled with the Leaven of the Pharisees.
    We should pray for Todd and others like him and not take the side of the Accuser of the bretheren.
    Thanks,
    Padre Planko

    May 27, 2009 at 1:00 am

  24. michael

    I Think its good that this blogger allows both sides of the story.I believe in manifestations of the Holy Spirit.I also believe that if one builds his faith around manifestations and not humble obedience to Jesus Christ through the scriptures You will end up in error.There is something called a religious spirit that can come onto and into people.

    February 13, 2010 at 2:51 pm

  25. Somy

    I agree with Michael. I came across a disturbing incident recently. I live in Kerala, India. A friend of mine was/is greatly influenced by the books of Sadhu Sundar Singh (At the master’s feet seems okay but visions has incidents that contradict the Bible). Anyway this friend’s husband had cancer. For a time they attended or at least my friend attended an alternate church which was scripture based and believed in the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The husband made a remarkable recovery. The husband was then asked to take his baptism which is the norm of all such churches in Kerala; they believe that water baptism should be taken after coming to a personal experience and acceptance of the Lord Jesus. My friend and husband refused to do so and went back to their old church. The husband had a relapse and passed away in December 2013.

    My sister-in-law and I went to see this friend. She was unimpressed when I quoted the Bible trying to tell her about the obedience to the Word of God, and the importance that this word had in the life of Paul, Peter etc etc, and in fact the apostle John equates the Word with the Lord Jesus.
    Her christian life was mostly based on the books of Sadhu Sundar Singh. I am not saying anything against Sadhu Sunder Singh. He was a great Christian, at least for the most part of his life, maybe throughout. I can’t judge anybody. The fact was that this friend placed more importance on the books of a created man than on the words of the Creator. And from what I made out from her words, her husband was not mentally prepared to die. He would have made a completed recovery if he had followed the Word of God or least he would have been prepared for death.

    March 20, 2014 at 7:40 am

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